Author Topic: Keys & Gray on women in football (Read 3,965 times)
henry
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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 15:55:31 GMT »
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Jan 24, 2011 15:49:56 GMT @secondcoming said:
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you've just been called on your red herring style shifting of the goalposts

officiating is different from playing


Yes, ofcourse it's different. But still no one has cared to explain me that if you think that quality should always be first women can't play in men's sports? Why isn't having seperating men and women in sports sexist where working in an office with entirely men or women definitely would be? The only thing I have heard is that women could never be as good as men. Probably so, but how can you know? First of all, women don't have the chance to get the same kind of training that men get and therefore have less chance to totally fullfil their potential. Second of all, theoretically there could always be one who is just as good or better. Just because the world has never lived in peace it doesn't mean it could happen.

So much questions, so little answers


Wat

your posts make less sense than all mine put together, i have no idea what you're saying

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 15:56:34 GMT »
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why isn't serena williams allowed to play singles against roger federer?
why is there no uproar about a mixture of sexes officiating tennis?


See, another contradiction. But not really, because if they would combine mens tennis and womens tennis Serena wouldnt be playing Grand Slams and all women would probably play challengers or something like that. That's not the point though, the point is that is no way it possible for women to compete against men and that contradicts with what's been said

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 15:59:56 GMT »
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Jan 24, 2011 15:53:30 GMT @secondcoming said:
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i'm not getting what you're saying here


There's been said that if Gray and Keys said something they same thing they said about women about black people the whole country would go nuts. Thereby there's been implied that no one really cares what they say about women

So if you can compare being black and being women with each other why is it that if there was a rule about black people can not play football together with people no one cares that women can't play football with men?



because like you say men and women aren't the same (i've made a thread about that) but I reckon because the very best play at a worse standard limitting their growth but also like Baz said there's physical difference

But the key thing is that your point is insignificant, because officiating, commentating and punditary are different from playing

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:04:00 GMT »
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In what why would playing be different if a woman was good enough to play with men? Don't get me started with the whole "women can never be as good as men because bladifuckingbla" because you'll never know. There are players smaller than most women that have the physics of a 2 years old and they still can play at high level. I'm not saying there definitely will be some women who will be able to compete against the men but it certainly is not impossible

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:06:29 GMT »
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If living in the 50's is thinking it's wrong that two men that have served a company for over 20 years between the two of them have been sacked for having a private conversation that isn't politically correct then I'm glad to be living there.


Exactly they are the faces of that company now, and they were still 'on the clock' not anywhere else so its not so private.

Do you support organisations that discriminate, what would you do if the people high up at the royal mail said while at work that white people aren't as hardworking as black people.

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:08:11 GMT »
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Jan 24, 2011 16:04:00 GMT @secondcoming said:
In what why would playing be different if a woman was good enough to play with men? Don't get me started with the whole "women can never be as good as men because bladifuckingbla" because you'll never know. There are players smaller than most women that have the physics of a 2 years old and they still can play at high level. I'm not saying there definitely will be some women who will be able to compete against the men but it certainly is not impossible


again as Baz pointed out, even someone like Lionel Messi is stronger than most

stop going down the playing route thats not the discussion today

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:09:13 GMT »
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The Dutch Prince has a point here. Isn't it a contradiction for the F.A to be telling women they can officiate mens games yet they can't take part in them and must only play with their own gender?


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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:10:14 GMT »
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news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Sky-Sports-Presenters-Richard-Keys-And-Andy-Gray-Criticise-Female-Referees-Off-Air/Article/201101415908957

audio of it.



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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:11:42 GMT »
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If living in the 50's is thinking it's wrong that two men that have served a company for over 20 years between the two of them have been sacked for having a private conversation that isn't politically correct then I'm glad to be living there.


Exactly they are the faces of that company now, and they were still 'on the clock' not anywhere else so its not so private.

Do you support organisations that discriminate, what would you do if the people high up at the royal mail said while at work that white people aren't as hardworking as black people.


I'd call them a cunt & that would be the end of the matter. I wouldn't go snooping around recording peoples conversations on my mobile phone thats for sure.

How can it be proved that they were at work at that exact time? They can't. It would never, ever stand up in a court that they said that whilst on company hours.

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:13:06 GMT »
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Jan 24, 2011 16:04:00 GMT @secondcoming said:
In what why would playing be different if a woman was good enough to play with men? Don't get me started with the whole "women can never be as good as men because bladifuckingbla" because you'll never know. There are players smaller than most women that have the physics of a 2 years old and they still can play at high level. I'm not saying there definitely will be some women who will be able to compete against the men but it certainly is not impossible


again as Baz pointed out, even someone like Lionel Messi is stronger than most

stop going down the playing route thats not the discussion today


::)

If he wants to raise a different point he can. Nobody stops you raising 15 different discussions a day so why should it be any different for him?

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:13:50 GMT »
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Jan 24, 2011 16:04:00 GMT @secondcoming said:
In what why would playing be different if a woman was good enough to play with men? Don't get me started with the whole "women can never be as good as men because bladifuckingbla" because you'll never know. There are players smaller than most women that have the physics of a 2 years old and they still can play at high level. I'm not saying there definitely will be some women who will be able to compete against the men but it certainly is not impossible


again as Baz pointed out, even someone like Lionel Messi is stronger than most

stop going down the playing route thats not the discussion today


It doesn't matter if Lionel Messi is stronger than most or not, if you see that as a valid point you're clearly missing the entire essence of what I am saying.

The playing route I have only set as an example to demonstrate the hypocrisy in all this

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:15:19 GMT »
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Jan 24, 2011 15:22:07 GMT @secondcoming said:
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One could argue that what Gray and Keys said is worse than what Atkinson said.

What Ron Atkinson said wasn't about a whole group of people, he was slagging off Desailly and used a racist term to describe him. These two are suggesting that women have no part to play in "their" sport and that women as a group know nothing about football.


And they're fucking right :D If a woman wants to be a linesman let her be a linesman in womens football. What's the next step? A woman as a referee, no player would take that serious would they? :D Apart from the fact women shouldn't be allowed within 2 miles of any football game it's also the simple fact that football players will never take women serious. It's just nature.. If I worked at a company and they were looking for a new executive they wouldn't pick me, even if I was the best employee they ever had. Simply because a 22-year old can't tell a 50-year old what to do. Are they racists for not giving me the job?

Apart from all that, they were saying it off the record, right? There's no man on earth who have never made jokes about women and sports, so I guess we're all sexists? Jesus, what a bunch of hypocritical bullshit. Oh and comparing it to shit said about black people is a bad comparison. There are loads of black people in men's professional football, no women. Also, this has nothing to with resentment to one another but is clearly just a battle of the sexes thing, which is entirely human. If men and women were entirely equal/the same (they are equal because one is not better than another but I do not mean that) apart from sexual attraction there would be attraction between men and women.



A lot of what you said is correct, unfortunately the stuff that's correct is irrelevant.

There are women who can fly planes these days. Seriously, look it up, i'm not making this shit up.

Expecting the offside law to be beyond them is so utterly ridiculous i can't comprehend how anyone can have that point of view.

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:17:39 GMT »
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Exactly they are the faces of that company now, and they were still 'on the clock' not anywhere else so its not so private.

Do you support organisations that discriminate, what would you do if the people high up at the royal mail said while at work that white people aren't as hardworking as black people.


I'd call them a cunt & that would be the end of the matter. I wouldn't go snooping around recording peoples conversations on my mobile phone thats for sure.

How can it be proved that they were at work at that exact time? They can't. It would never, ever stand up in a court that they said that whilst on company hours.


So you'd be happy to still follow an organisation with discriminatory views and thus possibly discriminatory practices

You could prove it in seconds, they are not talking retrospectively so it was sometime before kick off, they reference Karen Brady so it was sometime between that publication and kick off, where were they at that time?



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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:18:33 GMT »
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Jan 24, 2011 15:22:07 GMT @secondcoming said:


And they're fucking right :D If a woman wants to be a linesman let her be a linesman in womens football. What's the next step? A woman as a referee, no player would take that serious would they? :D Apart from the fact women shouldn't be allowed within 2 miles of any football game it's also the simple fact that football players will never take women serious. It's just nature.. If I worked at a company and they were looking for a new executive they wouldn't pick me, even if I was the best employee they ever had. Simply because a 22-year old can't tell a 50-year old what to do. Are they racists for not giving me the job?

Apart from all that, they were saying it off the record, right? There's no man on earth who have never made jokes about women and sports, so I guess we're all sexists? Jesus, what a bunch of hypocritical bullshit. Oh and comparing it to shit said about black people is a bad comparison. There are loads of black people in men's professional football, no women. Also, this has nothing to with resentment to one another but is clearly just a battle of the sexes thing, which is entirely human. If men and women were entirely equal/the same (they are equal because one is not better than another but I do not mean that) apart from sexual attraction there would be attraction between men and women.



A lot of what you said is correct, unfortunately the stuff that's correct is irrelevant.

There are women who can fly planes these days. Seriously, look it up, i'm not making this shit up.

Expecting the offside law to be beyond them is so utterly ridiculous i can't comprehend how anyone can have that point of view.


exactly

great post too

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:19:18 GMT »
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Jan 24, 2011 15:22:07 GMT @secondcoming said:


And they're fucking right :D If a woman wants to be a linesman let her be a linesman in womens football. What's the next step? A woman as a referee, no player would take that serious would they? :D Apart from the fact women shouldn't be allowed within 2 miles of any football game it's also the simple fact that football players will never take women serious. It's just nature.. If I worked at a company and they were looking for a new executive they wouldn't pick me, even if I was the best employee they ever had. Simply because a 22-year old can't tell a 50-year old what to do. Are they racists for not giving me the job?

Apart from all that, they were saying it off the record, right? There's no man on earth who have never made jokes about women and sports, so I guess we're all sexists? Jesus, what a bunch of hypocritical bullshit. Oh and comparing it to shit said about black people is a bad comparison. There are loads of black people in men's professional football, no women. Also, this has nothing to with resentment to one another but is clearly just a battle of the sexes thing, which is entirely human. If men and women were entirely equal/the same (they are equal because one is not better than another but I do not mean that) apart from sexual attraction there would be attraction between men and women.



A lot of what you said is correct, unfortunately the stuff that's correct is irrelevant.

There are women who can fly planes these days. Seriously, look it up, i'm not making this shit up.

Expecting the offside law to be beyond them is so utterly ridiculous i can't comprehend how anyone can have that point of view.


You have never hear me say that men have more brains than women or that women are stupid, have you? ;)

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:20:03 GMT »
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again as Baz pointed out, even someone like Lionel Messi is stronger than most

stop going down the playing route thats not the discussion today


::)

If he wants to raise a different point he can. Nobody stops you raising 15 different discussions a day so why should it be any different for him?


I digress and i make different threads etc but thats not what i'm accusing him off, i'm just saying he's going down the wrong route, arguing about playing to make a point about officiating

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:21:24 GMT »
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A lot of what you said is correct, unfortunately the stuff that's correct is irrelevant.

There are women who can fly planes these days. Seriously, look it up, i'm not making this shit up.

Expecting the offside law to be beyond them is so utterly ridiculous i can't comprehend how anyone can have that point of view.


exactly

great post too


In my eyes it's not irrelevant. However, the post Byram quoted was a small piece of how I think of the situation and ofcourse you can agree or disagree with that. There's no way to disagree with the points I made later on though, unless you're a hypocrite

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:21:30 GMT »
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Jan 24, 2011 16:13:50 GMT @secondcoming said:
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again as Baz pointed out, even someone like Lionel Messi is stronger than most

stop going down the playing route thats not the discussion today


It doesn't matter if Lionel Messi is stronger than most or not, if you see that as a valid point you're clearly missing the entire essence of what I am saying.

The playing route I have only set as an example to demonstrate the hypocrisy in all this


We're only hypocrites if we say they can't officiate other things

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:23:29 GMT »
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I'd call them a cunt & that would be the end of the matter. I wouldn't go snooping around recording peoples conversations on my mobile phone thats for sure.

How can it be proved that they were at work at that exact time? They can't. It would never, ever stand up in a court that they said that whilst on company hours.


So you'd be happy to still follow an organisation with discriminatory views and thus possibly discriminatory practices

You could prove it in seconds, they are not talking retrospectively so it was sometime before kick off, they reference Karen Brady so it was sometime between that publication and kick off, where were they at that time?



I couldn't care less if 'somebody' however high up had a viewpoint that they gave privately to a friend that clashed with my views & morals, no.

Your second point is still irrelevant, it wouldn't hold up in court. Theres no way you could prove when they said that if it's just been recorded on somebodys phone.

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 Keys & Gray on women in football
« Jan 24, 2011 16:28:01 GMT »
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The fact is its not a private conversation because they are at work, are you honestly saying you don't see how logically you could prove in seconds the time frame in which they would have had that conversation and thus where they were. (At work)


So you don't care unless it affects you directly good, when they start discriminating against you i hope there's no one there to help.

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