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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 28, 2011 22:28:39 GMT
Post by krburg on Dec 28, 2011 22:28:39 GMT
Seeing as Karl has decided that 2012 is going to be the year of the Boss/Prince, thought I would put some thoughts down on both for him to use in his quest, starting with Springsteen as I've been listening to him loads recently. It took me years to dip my toe into Springsteen, I like many others I'm sure had always dismissed him as a bit of a cheese ball, built in the spirit of a Bon Jovi or a Bryan Adams, largely based on Born in the USA, Glory Days & Dancing in the Dark (Which they are to an extent..) It wasn't until I heard the song 'Growin Up' that my mind began to change, I remember hearing Ricky Gervais playing it on Xfm and being totally surprised to hear that it was Springsteen, it was then that I delved into his earlier stuff (Growin Up is from his debut). I actually discovered each of his albums in order, which I think was a massive help as it does give you a great perspective of the man and his work and how it developed over the years. Lets start with the debut.. Greetings From Asbury Park NJ (1973)This utterly surprised me when I first heard it, it didn't sound anything like I would have expected it too, its nothing like the bombastic, fists in the air, anthemic music he later became associated with, the production is really quite tight and smaller sounding, it also felt a bit funkier than expected. This mainly due to the band he had with him at the time, i.e the E Street Band Mark 1 and mainly the inclusion of David Sancious on piano and Vinny 'Mad Dog' Lopez on drums, who both brought a latin element to the band, Lopez' drums are very busy throughout. But the Springsteen elements were taking shape and his sense of grandeur and storytelling abilities were taking shape. There are a fuck tonne of lyrics on the album too, lots and lots of words crammed in to every song, funny because Springsteen has often said he wasn't overly keen on that approach, he wrote the lyrics separately from the music for that album and hasn't used that method since, but I think it's one of the albums strengths, the imagery is fantastic. At the time he was the latest in a list of American singer songwriters to be dubbed the 'new Dylan' on account of this apparent lyrical prowess, I suppose this album is the closest in style to Dylan he would ever get but he would ultimately develop his style and they eventually came from different angles. Where Dylan would often cloak and shroud his lyrics in metaphor, Springsteen is very straight and honest, almost ham fisted in his approach, telling stories about real people, real events and the struggles and hardships of real life. This album has its empathetic moments, Lost in the Flood is the story of a 'Nam' Vet returning to a humbling life (a topic he would revisit on Born in the USA), but it mainly deals with teenage heartbreak and the perils of being a young man growing up in a small suburban town in New Jersey and the music reflects this, its playful for the nost part and when it needs to be, and its sombre and reflective when it's required. It is however definitely the sound of a man learning his trading and finding his way, the production is a tad flat, but it sort of works for what they're doing and the songs sometimes lack a little something that he would later find in abundance. This albums sounds like a hungry young man on the cusp of something special, it has swagger but its also a touch naive but overall it's a great album too get your teeth into and delve into what Springsteen was all about. Original E Street Band Lineup TBC..
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 8:01:28 GMT
Post by brad on Dec 29, 2011 8:01:28 GMT
Cheers Kev, wanted something to listen to this morning and this fits the bill nicely!
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 12:04:38 GMT
Post by backstreets on Dec 29, 2011 12:04:38 GMT
Great read! Fantastic if you can keep it up and cover his entire career in the same way Nebraska was the album that turned me around regarding Springsteen. Same hesitation towards him before that, with a feel of flag-waving Bon Jovi shit. Imagine the Born In The USA album without the 80's stadium rock tendencies. Thankfully some of the songs were demoed during the Nebraska recordings and you can hear how they might have sounded with different arrangements.
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 12:15:25 GMT
Post by krburg on Dec 29, 2011 12:15:25 GMT
Must admit, Nebraska is as far as I go with Springsteen, Born in the USA just doesn't sit with me and after that I've never really delved properly any further, so i'll go through to Nebraska
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 12:26:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2011 12:26:26 GMT
Go all the way pussy!!!!
Great writeup Kev. I share the same thoughts with the debut. Some fantastic lyrics Baseball cards poked in his spokes, his boots in oil he's patiently soaked : happycry: The production does suck a bit of life out of it but the songs are too strong for it to be damaging.
Look forward to your thoughts on The Wild, the Innocent & the E Street Shuffle. Heard it 4/5 times, it's still growing on me. Not so sure the batch of songs are as strong but musically theres some amazing moments & this time round the production is much bigger sounding.
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 13:42:33 GMT
Post by backstreets on Dec 29, 2011 13:42:33 GMT
The songs are there on the first two albums but the production really hold them back. Sometimes they feel locked up, you just want the production to set them free. So I have never really fully enjoyed them. That's why I think his live shows are some of the best you can see. All the songs are let loose and are way more dynamic and fresh sounding live. (This include songs from other albums too of course.)
You should really try and give The Ghost Of Tom Joad a chance. Not as strong as Nebraska but some gold is to be found, like Youngstown and the title track.
Tunnel Of Love is probably the album that suffers the most by bad production though. But you should try and find some live versions of the songs. They are quite harsh and sad. Probably the best divorce album ever written.
Don't ever go near Human Touch and Lucky Town though. It's like seeing Messi gain 100 pounds and still think he can play for Barcelona.
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 13:49:22 GMT
Post by Benoît Assou-Ekotto on Dec 29, 2011 13:49:22 GMT
Born In The USA is a fucking tune.
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 14:11:23 GMT
Post by eddiemurphy on Dec 29, 2011 14:11:23 GMT
Don't ever go near Human Touch and Lucky Town though. It's like seeing Messi gain 100 pounds and still think he can play for Barcelona. Born to run ftw.
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 14:14:23 GMT
Post by jimmy on Dec 29, 2011 14:14:23 GMT
The E street band is probably the greatest live band of all time. Epic beyond words. Can't wait to see them this summer in Sunderland although it's going to be sad Clarence not being there. There are so many Springsteen haters out there, people who see him as this cheesy frontman when they have no idea of the songs he has wrote. He's a cross between the 2 American greats Dylan and Elvis. A showman on stage and a songwriter with tremendous lyrical talent, he has the voice, he's a decent guitarist, his songs are diverse, he's never sold out and he has the backing of the greatest band in the world. Whats not to love. Anyway my top 5 are:-
1)Darkness on the edge of town 2)Nebraska 3)The wild,the innocent & the e street shuffle 4)Born to run 5)The River
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 19:21:03 GMT
Post by srk on Dec 29, 2011 19:21:03 GMT
It took me a long time to 'get' springsteen. Even saw him live twice and it didn't really take, but it wasn't until we saw him at Giants Stadium in New Jersey, where he did a 3-hour E Street Band extravaganze before it really sunk in. He's great.
Top 5 -
1. Nebraska 2. Darkness 3. BTR 4. Magic 5. Greetings from Asbury Park, NJ
Saw him do BTR and Born in the USA front-to-back a few years ago. Really hit me that despite the shit 80s production, and the fact that the singles were completely ruined by being played constantly on the radio when I was a kid....born in the USA is a really good album.
I hate the river. (The album, not the song.) 10 songs too long, and a lot of shit.
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 19:23:16 GMT
Post by barny on Dec 29, 2011 19:23:16 GMT
It took me a long time to 'get' springsteen The time he needed to age?
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 21:21:52 GMT
Post by krburg on Dec 29, 2011 21:21:52 GMT
The Wild, The Innocent & The E Street Shuffle (1973)I always consider this as a sort of sequel to the debut, they are like brother & sister counter-pieces to each other, because he really went off somewhere else after this. I suppose its a simple assertion to make as its the second and last album to feature the first incarnation of the E Street Band. There is a definite shift here though, even though there is an obvious link to the debut, the production has the same close vibe going on, you can definitely feel a step has been taken here. It's not as 'songy' as the debut if that makes sense, where as the songs on the debut feel like a songwriter sitting at a guitar writing a 3 and a half minute song, this feels more like a band effort, and like a band who were a lot more comfortable and schooled playing with each other. it's very jammy and a lot more grooved based especially in the more upbeat songs like Kitty's Back and Rosalita, but even the ballads seem to have more meandering structures than your usual ballad and it shows a side of Springsteen and the E Street Band that wasn't on the debut. In fact the playing on this album is a revelation, the band had some serious chops and as previously mentioned it feels like they had really been hammering this out on stage for a while, it definitely has a looser almost party vibe to a lot of it, The title track, Kittys Back and Rosalita being amongst the most fun and playful songs of his career and songs that have shaped his live sets to this day. One of the big departures on this is how lyrically its far less crammed, as mentioned in my previous post, Springsteen took a new approach to the lyrics on this one, choosing to write the lyrics along with the melodies, which I suppose is a more conventional way of writing pop song lyrics and means the lyrics take a more subtle and direct approach, but he is still saying similar things to what he was saying on the debut, just with less words. For me the great thing about this album is its structure, there is a good mix of big in your face party songs, a sombre delicate balladry, and the album seems to run very smoothly between the two, it pretty much goes rocker/ballad/rocker/ballad etc.. which you would think would be an obvious trick but it works, especially as a lot of the songs are quite lengthy and often structurally go all over the place, it never feels too dull or gets too boring, the ballads have beautiful melodies and the rockers have catchy hooks galore to keep them right in your face, nothing ever outstays its welcome. The production again is not quite there, and its something the he would address on the next album, but this is a minor qualm and something that many people have pointed out before, but I think there is something to it, a certain charm. Again its full of total swagger, but instead of just Springsteen showing off his goods, the whole band swing on this. But it would be short lived as this was the last album to feature the E Street Band mark one as members were about to leave and their replacements would help shape the next stage of Springsteen's career. TBC..
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 21:40:20 GMT
Post by backstreets on Dec 29, 2011 21:40:20 GMT
I'm probably rushing things here as I don't know what you will write about Born To Run but it's an interesting thought regarding this version of the E Street Band and the one to come. Would this version have been able to make Born To Run? And if so, how would it have sounded.
The funkiness would surely have affected Born To Run. If that would have been a good thing or not we'll never know.
I may have critcised the production but I agree with you that there's a certain charm to it. It is sort of timeless because I wouldn't call it dated. It's just very closed in, as said.
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 21:45:40 GMT
Post by jp on Dec 29, 2011 21:45:40 GMT
he's no jesse malin
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 29, 2011 22:00:35 GMT
Post by krburg on Dec 29, 2011 22:00:35 GMT
I'm probably rushing things here as I don't know what you will write about Born To Run but it's an interesting thought regarding this version of the E Street Band and the one to come. Would this version have been able to make Born To Run? And if so, how would it have sounded. The funkiness would surely have affected Born To Run. If that would have been a good thing or not we'll never know. I may have critcised the production but I agree with you that there's a certain charm to it. It is sort of timeless because I wouldn't call it dated. It's just very closed in, as said. Yeah great point, I don't think they would have been able to do it as it sounds, they would have had a go, but the two replacements make a huge difference for me, Vinny Lopez and Max Weinberg have hugely different styles, but Roy Bittan coming in on Piano dominates Born to Run, much like Sancious kind of dominates the sound on the first two albums. Interestingly enough, as the song Born to Run was recorded months before the rest of the album, it actually has Sancious on Piano and a guy called Ernest Carter on drums, so Sancious definitely would have made a good effort with it, but the piano isn't as prominent on that song as it is the majority of the album. Edit, saying all that, I think Springsteen had a very definite idea for the album and the sound he wanted. Have you seen the documentary that came with the 30th anniversary box set, its a great watch and shows how much details he went into with the recording of that sound alone, I think he new Lopez wouldn't be right for the project so got rid of him.
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 30, 2011 7:08:43 GMT
Post by eddiemurphy on Dec 30, 2011 7:08:43 GMT
Have you seen the documentary that came with the 30th anniversary box set, its a great watch and shows how much details he went into with the recording of that sound alone, I think he new Lopez wouldn't be right for the project so got rid of him. great innit. love the live 1975 hammersmith gig to. deffo me fav bruce album. he even wrote a song mentioning me in it.
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 30, 2011 13:32:20 GMT
Post by Columbia_rocks_man on Dec 30, 2011 13:32:20 GMT
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 30, 2011 14:58:09 GMT
Post by eddiemurphy on Dec 30, 2011 14:58:09 GMT
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The Boss
Posted On: Dec 30, 2011 15:08:24 GMT
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2011 15:08:24 GMT
Another great writeup Kev. I'm enjoying that album more and more with each listen. Kitty's back is outstanding, best Boss song I've head as of yet.
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The Boss
Posted On: Jan 1, 2012 6:03:37 GMT
Post by lino on Jan 1, 2012 6:03:37 GMT
Thanks for this - a very valuable thread.
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