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Post by eddiemurphy on Jan 4, 2011 18:52:44 GMT
no crappy november rain video's here mate. highway to hell and back in black destroy guns n roses.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2011 18:59:21 GMT
That is so embarrassing  They are no Iron Maiden  |
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Post by secondcoming on Jan 4, 2011 19:03:18 GMT
i personally do not even hate daft punk but as their name suggest they're just a bit daft . in the list of bands who have some good music but i kind of despise overall as i think they're fake rock n roll cunts and are really mediocre are brmc and the strokes. i know they're loved bands around here so i'll probably get some shit for this but they're nothing special imho guess who's in the list of people who I like overall but should have a painful death you like mgmt  |
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Post by srk on Jan 4, 2011 20:05:47 GMT
That is so embarrassing They are no Iron Maiden But then who is, really? |
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Post by Simone on Jan 4, 2011 20:09:26 GMT
But that's entirely subjective though isn't it, just because you don't think she is deserving of it, doesn't mean that others don't, and lets be honest when you're at the kind of rung that both her and Bragg are on, it all comes down to whether someone likes your music enough to put it out for you, neither will realistically be looking to sell a shed load of records, so someone has to take a punt, luckily for Newsom, she has a label who obviously like what she does and are prepared to let her do her thing and trust her. Its not Joanna Newsom's fault that someone isn't as prepared to take such an obvious risk with Billy Bragg, again it comes down to subjective taste, I personally am not that keen on what Bragg does, so if it was me I would rather pay for Newsom to release an album than Billy Bragg, does that make me a cretin? I think its a rather silly attitude to take to call it unfair because someone who's music you don't like is allowed to release music more comfortably than someone you do like, its a bit like squabbling with pre-pubescent school friends about who is better Oasis or Blur, music, art, is subjective which is why its so great and universal, there is virtue in all art, high and low. It doesn't make you a cretin, however we can talk about how much of your passion for her music is genuine and how much you're tricked by the media into thinking she's an alienated genius who makes quality music. Of course her "Cristina Aguilera for the hipsters" promotion (aka " I make music for intellectual people but I care about looking as a sex bomb too") gives us a clue on how genuine her public recognition is. I may be old school, but I don't get when independent artists with "intellectual claims" fall into the same path of the mainstream music. I expect these people to be above these rules and hey, if I saw Joni Mitchell posing as she was on the front cover of playboy, I would be very disappointed. It's legit to ignore the ethic if you like her music, anyway. To me, she still sounds like a broken intercom, or a renaissance fair elf if you prefer. Of course if you are happy go with her while I go with Billy Bragg (just to name a honest one), it's subjective after all and it depends on what you are looking for when you choose your music. I don't know what people see in J.Newsom, maybe they are attracted by the "challenging" factor of her music, but train station noises could be as challenging, if only someone intellectualizes them. And it's perfectly legit to complain if the "independent" music world is a bit fucked up, no? It is ruled by record sales (which are ruled by promotion and hype from websites and magazines)* and the circle is unfair by design, because most of these artists are praised for the social status they embody rather than the music they make. Which is the reason why they are considered 'hipster' (whatever it means). So it hurts to see Deerhunter or Animal Collective to be constantly mentioned on magazines because they are trendy and they rule the independent industry, while seasoned artists who aren't trendy anymore (or never been) get largely ingnored. Course it's legit to complain, why would it be silly?! Isn't it unfair that Mark Eitzel (who was considered the best american songwriter of the 90s) has to write a blog post telling people "PLEASE I HAVE TO SELL 500 COPIES OF MY NEW RECORD!!"?? *of course we're talking about "alternative music" industry, not pop music business, so don't take the charts as an example. At its core, the alternative music industry works exactly like the pop music industry though. |
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Post by Columbia_rocks_man on Jan 4, 2011 20:25:30 GMT
no crappy november rain video's here mate. You're a fud with glass eyes. November Rain is a cinematic masterpiece. |
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Post by krburg on Jan 4, 2011 20:33:34 GMT
But that's entirely subjective though isn't it, just because you don't think she is deserving of it, doesn't mean that others don't, and lets be honest when you're at the kind of rung that both her and Bragg are on, it all comes down to whether someone likes your music enough to put it out for you, neither will realistically be looking to sell a shed load of records, so someone has to take a punt, luckily for Newsom, she has a label who obviously like what she does and are prepared to let her do her thing and trust her. Its not Joanna Newsom's fault that someone isn't as prepared to take such an obvious risk with Billy Bragg, again it comes down to subjective taste, I personally am not that keen on what Bragg does, so if it was me I would rather pay for Newsom to release an album than Billy Bragg, does that make me a cretin? I think its a rather silly attitude to take to call it unfair because someone who's music you don't like is allowed to release music more comfortably than someone you do like, its a bit like squabbling with pre-pubescent school friends about who is better Oasis or Blur, music, art, is subjective which is why its so great and universal, there is virtue in all art, high and low. It doesn't make you a cretin, however we can talk about how much of your passion for her music is genuine and how much you're tricked by the media into thinking she's an alienated genius who makes quality music. Of course her "Cristina Aguilera for the hipsters" promotion (aka " I make music for intellectual people but I care about looking as a sex bomb too") gives us a clue on how genuine her public recognition is. I may be old school, but I don't get when independent artists with "intellectual claims" fall into the same path of the mainstream music. I expect these people to be above these rules and hey, if I saw Joni Mitchell posing as she was on the front cover of playboy, I would be very disappointed. It's legit to ignore the ethic if you like her music, anyway. To me, she still sounds like a broken intercom, or a renaissance fair elf if you prefer. Of course if you are happy go with her while I go with Billy Bragg (just to name a honest one), it's subjective after all and it depends on what you are looking for when you choose your music. I don't know what people see in J.Newsom, maybe they are attracted by the "challenging" factor of her music, but train station noises could be as challenging, if only someone intellectualizes them. And it's perfectly legit to complain if the "independent" music world is a bit fucked up, no? It is ruled by record sales (which are ruled by promotion and hype from websites and magazines)* and the circle is unfair by design, because most of these artists are praised for the social status they embody rather than the music they make. Which is the reason why they are considered 'hipster' (whatever it means). So it hurts to see Deerhunter or Animal Collective to be constantly mentioned on magazines because they are trendy and they rule the independent industry, while seasoned artists who aren't trendy anymore (or never been) get largely ingnored. Course it's legit to complain, why would it be silly?! Isn't it unfair that Mark Eitzel (who was considered the best american songwriter of the 90s) has to write a blog post telling people "PLEASE I HAVE TO SELL 500 COPIES OF MY NEW RECORD!!"?? *of course we're talking about "alternative music" industry, not pop music business, so don't take the charts as an example. At its core, the alternative music industry works exactly like the pop music industry though.The point i'm trying to make is that you think Mark Eitzel was the best american songwriter of the 90's, doesn't mean its true, there is no best songwriter ever, this is music not sport, there is no start and stop and best or worst, there just is, you don't think its fair that J Newsom gets to release a triple album, I do, neither of us are write or wrong, its down to taste. I agree with the principle and point of the rest of your post and the fact is, its a shame that genuine artists have to resort to begging on blogs to sell records, but thats the way it is, obviously not enough people think that Mark Eitzel is the best songwriter of the 90's or he wouldn't have to do that and maybe a label would take a gamble with him and let him do his thing. I do however feel its a bit of a cheap shot lambasting Newsom for provocative photo shoots, its hardly as if one, her fanbase wasn't in place for this album anyway after the moderate success of Ys, and two, that her fanbase are the type of people to be drawn into her music by seeing a couple of shots of her looking pretty, that is a silly assumption. To be honest, I just fail to see how people can waste so much energy hating music they don't like, its so tasteless, if you don't like something, move on, find something you do like, its a childish past time that I used to spend so much time doing when I was a stupid kid trying persuade my mates 'so and so' are the best band in the world or 'so and so' are the worst band in da world. etc.. |
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Post by Columbia_rocks_man on Jan 4, 2011 20:53:59 GMT
TBH Kev, in a world where people increasingly can no longer even agree on what the best albums of a particular year were, then we will define ourselves more and more by the music we don't like.
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Post by brad on Jan 4, 2011 21:11:54 GMT
Libertines
The debut has warmed to me a little though - can't stand the 2nd
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Post by ana on Jan 4, 2011 21:27:37 GMT
WHAT
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Post by barny on Jan 4, 2011 21:30:15 GMT
CAN'T STAND ME NOW
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Post by krburg on Jan 4, 2011 22:00:52 GMT
For a band that I adore, I never really got on well with British Sea Powers 'Open Season', I remember being really quite disappointed with it after the debut, I liked certain songs on it but couldn't stomach it as an album, but I've really quite grown into it quite a lot in the last year and really enjoy it now, I still think its their weakest album (not including Man of Aran s/t), but I love the other two and thats no bad thing, I'm glad I came back to it and gave it some more time with fresh ears.
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Post by brad on Jan 4, 2011 22:23:07 GMT
For a band that I adore, I never really got on well with British Sea Powers 'Open Season', I remember being really quite disappointed with it after the debut, I liked certain songs on it but couldn't stomach it as an album, but I've really quite grown into it quite a lot in the last year and really enjoy it now, I still think its their weakest album (not including Man of Aran s/t), but I love the other two and thats no bad thing, I'm glad I came back to it and gave it some more time with fresh ears. THis ;D |
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Post by krburg on Jan 4, 2011 22:27:14 GMT
For a band that I adore, I never really got on well with British Sea Powers 'Open Season', I remember being really quite disappointed with it after the debut, I liked certain songs on it but couldn't stomach it as an album, but I've really quite grown into it quite a lot in the last year and really enjoy it now, I still think its their weakest album (not including Man of Aran s/t), but I love the other two and thats no bad thing, I'm glad I came back to it and gave it some more time with fresh ears. THis ;D High five Brad!  |
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Post by titchjuicy on Jan 4, 2011 22:39:02 GMT
But that's entirely subjective though isn't it, just because you don't think she is deserving of it, doesn't mean that others don't, and lets be honest when you're at the kind of rung that both her and Bragg are on, it all comes down to whether someone likes your music enough to put it out for you, neither will realistically be looking to sell a shed load of records, so someone has to take a punt, luckily for Newsom, she has a label who obviously like what she does and are prepared to let her do her thing and trust her. Its not Joanna Newsom's fault that someone isn't as prepared to take such an obvious risk with Billy Bragg, again it comes down to subjective taste, I personally am not that keen on what Bragg does, so if it was me I would rather pay for Newsom to release an album than Billy Bragg, does that make me a cretin? I think its a rather silly attitude to take to call it unfair because someone who's music you don't like is allowed to release music more comfortably than someone you do like, its a bit like squabbling with pre-pubescent school friends about who is better Oasis or Blur, music, art, is subjective which is why its so great and universal, there is virtue in all art, high and low. It doesn't make you a cretin, however we can talk about how much of your passion for her music is genuine and how much you're tricked by the media into thinking she's an alienated genius who makes quality music. Of course her "Cristina Aguilera for the hipsters" promotion (aka " I make music for intellectual people but I care about looking as a sex bomb too") gives us a clue on how genuine her public recognition is. I may be old school, but I don't get when independent artists with "intellectual claims" fall into the same path of the mainstream music. I expect these people to be above these rules and hey, if I saw Joni Mitchell posing as she was on the front cover of playboy, I would be very disappointed. It's legit to ignore the ethic if you like her music, anyway. To me, she still sounds like a broken intercom, or a renaissance fair elf if you prefer. Of course if you are happy go with her while I go with Billy Bragg (just to name a honest one), it's subjective after all and it depends on what you are looking for when you choose your music. I don't know what people see in J.Newsom, maybe they are attracted by the "challenging" factor of her music, but train station noises could be as challenging, if only someone intellectualizes them. And it's perfectly legit to complain if the "independent" music world is a bit fucked up, no? It is ruled by record sales (which are ruled by promotion and hype from websites and magazines)* and the circle is unfair by design, because most of these artists are praised for the social status they embody rather than the music they make. Which is the reason why they are considered 'hipster' (whatever it means). So it hurts to see Deerhunter or Animal Collective to be constantly mentioned on magazines because they are trendy and they rule the independent industry, while seasoned artists who aren't trendy anymore (or never been) get largely ingnored. Course it's legit to complain, why would it be silly?! Isn't it unfair that Mark Eitzel (who was considered the best american songwriter of the 90s) has to write a blog post telling people "PLEASE I HAVE TO SELL 500 COPIES OF MY NEW RECORD!!"?? *of course we're talking about "alternative music" industry, not pop music business, so don't take the charts as an example. At its core, the alternative music industry works exactly like the pop music industry though.Jeez  The irony here is in trying to see through a media perception you're being remarkably blinkered. I knew literally nothing about joanna newsom (let alone what she looked like) when i first heard 'cosmia' on a magazine sampler- from that first listen i bought Y's, as the track blew me away. Within 10 listens Y's had become my favourite album of the decade due exclusively to this extraordinary, majestic, epic, poetic arrangements, playing and lyrics. Full of exquisite melody if given a chance. Her voice is a matter of taste (but then so is bob dylans, lou reeds, wayne coynes and mark e smiths), but if you seriously think she gets the praise and critical acclaim she does because of how she looks and is presented by the media then there's no room for objectivity here- you're wrong. She might not press your buttons, but in my humble opinion she's the closest thing recent 'mainstream' music has to an out and out genius. |
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Post by Simone on Jan 5, 2011 3:17:31 GMT
I think you didn't understand the core of what I have written, so I really don't know what you are facepalming at. Maybe at the fact that I don't like something you do. Meh.
Beside the candor shown by your personal experience (which I appreciated, but it's a minor detail) and personal taste, my main point obviously revolved around the fact that I find despicable, from an artist with intellectual claims, to present herself the way she does. There's plenty of room for different music, be it angular or circular, but I find paradoxical for an artist in her position, to insist so much on appearances.
It's ok that the look shoundn't denote the quality of the music, but I still think that the aesthetics gimmicks belong to the world of Beyonce rather than the independent labels universe.
here's a snippet from a dispassionate review I found online, powerful stuff that I recommend reading:
As any red-blooded music nerd with a pulse and a penis will take great pains to tell you, Joanna Newsom has, in recent years, graduated from a cute little girl fascinated by fairies and magic who you would like to cuddle and escape to a fantasy land with, into a smoking hot sex bomb whose curves could send nerd-flesh into spasms of un-containable and inexpressible delight. Even the strongest and least nerdy among us might have felt some dangerous heart palpitations upon opening up the Have One On Me box to find each individual CD and the lyric book adorned with a separate shot of Joanna in various stages of tying her hair back, reclined, stretched out on display and leaving only nipples to the imagination. It is a far cry from the Dungeons and Dragons-friendly portrait that graced the cover of Ys and it seems to mark another phase of Joanna's artistic progression, a maturity and a grace that shows us that our little girl done growed up.
It's sad to see that what we once considered independent music, which should be honest in the first place, is slowly getting as 'glamourous' and glittered as mainstream music, only in its own unique way. And who suffers the consequences are obviously the artists who do not fit. Laura Marling, for example, has done one of the best records of her generation, but she doesn't seem as appealing as their peers, so she hardly got mentioned outside the UK. Result is that people in the known didn't take her seriously. On the other hand Pitchfork, who should be the window on the non-mainstream music world, now features 40% of reviews of hip-hop and rap artists (love them or hate them) whose values of 'bitches and money' clearly clash with those that the independent artists should have.
I might be frustrated because artists I love never get mentioned and records I adore get miserable reviews, but I sense they're re-creating a smaller neo-mainstream system there.
And it's pretty clear that I'm not wasting my energy "hating" an artist; I can't care less for an artistic product per se and I'm not trying to convince you that my record collection is better than yours. I'm just acknowledging that maybe, just "maybe" they're creating a system where music alone is not enough anymore...again, I'm not making any statement on J.Newsom music, I'm glad if any music has some meaning for its audience and I'm sure that clever listeners can make good use of it.
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Post by barny on Jan 5, 2011 10:33:18 GMT
It's brilliant the way you get involved in labyrinthic discussions going round and round in circles only to finally win on points Maybe if I see the pictures you're talking about I'll join your cause... |
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Post by tupac.tom on Jan 5, 2011 10:57:21 GMT
I think you didn't understand the core of what I have written, so I really don't know what you are facepalming at. Maybe at the fact that I don't like something you do. Meh. Beside the candor shown by your personal experience (which I appreciated, but it's a minor detail) and personal taste, my main point obviously revolved around the fact that I find despicable, from an artist with intellectual claims, to present herself the way she does. There's plenty of room for different music, be it angular or circular, but I find paradoxical for an artist in her position, to insist so much on appearances. It's ok that the look shoundn't denote the quality of the music, but I still think that the aesthetics gimmicks belong to the world of Beyonce rather than the independent labels universe. here's a snippet from a dispassionate review I found online, powerful stuff that I recommend reading: As any red-blooded music nerd with a pulse and a penis will take great pains to tell you, Joanna Newsom has, in recent years, graduated from a cute little girl fascinated by fairies and magic who you would like to cuddle and escape to a fantasy land with, into a smoking hot sex bomb whose curves could send nerd-flesh into spasms of un-containable and inexpressible delight. Even the strongest and least nerdy among us might have felt some dangerous heart palpitations upon opening up the Have One On Me box to find each individual CD and the lyric book adorned with a separate shot of Joanna in various stages of tying her hair back, reclined, stretched out on display and leaving only nipples to the imagination. It is a far cry from the Dungeons and Dragons-friendly portrait that graced the cover of Ys and it seems to mark another phase of Joanna's artistic progression, a maturity and a grace that shows us that our little girl done growed up. It's sad to see that what we once considered independent music, which should be honest in the first place, is slowly getting as 'glamourous' and glittered as mainstream music, only in its own unique way. And who suffers the consequences are obviously the artists who do not fit. Laura Marling, for example, has done one of the best records of her generation, but she doesn't seem as appealing as their peers, so she hardly got mentioned outside the UK. Result is that people in the known didn't take her seriously. On the other hand Pitchfork, who should be the window on the non-mainstream music world, now features 40% of reviews of hip-hop and rap artists (love them or hate them) whose values of 'bitches and money' clearly clash with those that the independent artists should have. I might be frustrated because artists I love never get mentioned and records I adore get miserable reviews, but I sense they're re-creating a smaller neo-mainstream system there. And it's pretty clear that I'm not wasting my energy "hating" an artist; I can't care less for an artistic product per se and I'm not trying to convince you that my record collection is better than yours. I'm just acknowledging that maybe, just "maybe" they're creating a system where music alone is not enough anymore...again, I'm not making any statement on J.Newsom music, I'm glad if any music has some meaning for its audience and I'm sure that clever listeners can make good use of it. Now I didn't read any of that but you are clearly wrong. |
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Post by retiredboxer on Jan 5, 2011 11:03:17 GMT
I think you didn't understand the core of what I have written, so I really don't know what you are facepalming at. Maybe at the fact that I don't like something you do. Meh. Beside the candor shown by your personal experience (which I appreciated, but it's a minor detail) and personal taste, my main point obviously revolved around the fact that I find despicable, from an artist with intellectual claims, to present herself the way she does. There's plenty of room for different music, be it angular or circular, but I find paradoxical for an artist in her position, to insist so much on appearances. It's ok that the look shoundn't denote the quality of the music, but I still think that the aesthetics gimmicks belong to the world of Beyonce rather than the independent labels universe. here's a snippet from a dispassionate review I found online, powerful stuff that I recommend reading: As any red-blooded music nerd with a pulse and a penis will take great pains to tell you, Joanna Newsom has, in recent years, graduated from a cute little girl fascinated by fairies and magic who you would like to cuddle and escape to a fantasy land with, into a smoking hot sex bomb whose curves could send nerd-flesh into spasms of un-containable and inexpressible delight. Even the strongest and least nerdy among us might have felt some dangerous heart palpitations upon opening up the Have One On Me box to find each individual CD and the lyric book adorned with a separate shot of Joanna in various stages of tying her hair back, reclined, stretched out on display and leaving only nipples to the imagination. It is a far cry from the Dungeons and Dragons-friendly portrait that graced the cover of Ys and it seems to mark another phase of Joanna's artistic progression, a maturity and a grace that shows us that our little girl done growed up. It's sad to see that what we once considered independent music, which should be honest in the first place, is slowly getting as 'glamourous' and glittered as mainstream music, only in its own unique way. And who suffers the consequences are obviously the artists who do not fit. Laura Marling, for example, has done one of the best records of her generation, but she doesn't seem as appealing as their peers, so she hardly got mentioned outside the UK. Result is that people in the known didn't take her seriously. On the other hand Pitchfork, who should be the window on the non-mainstream music world, now features 40% of reviews of hip-hop and rap artists (love them or hate them) whose values of 'bitches and money' clearly clash with those that the independent artists should have. I might be frustrated because artists I love never get mentioned and records I adore get miserable reviews, but I sense they're re-creating a smaller neo-mainstream system there. And it's pretty clear that I'm not wasting my energy "hating" an artist; I can't care less for an artistic product per se and I'm not trying to convince you that my record collection is better than yours. I'm just acknowledging that maybe, just "maybe" they're creating a system where music alone is not enough anymore...again, I'm not making any statement on J.Newsom music, I'm glad if any music has some meaning for its audience and I'm sure that clever listeners can make good use of it. If you think it's 'only about the music' then you haven't understood rock n roll to begin with. And it's quite ironic you've mentioned Billy Bragg in your bizarre dichotomy between 'good' and 'bad' artists, seeing as he's just covered a joanna newsom song for a cover project- I'm sure its only cos he wants to fuck her then. |
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Post by barny on Jan 5, 2011 11:04:39 GMT
I hate Vampire Weekend, which might seem quite obvious, but it's purely cos they seem to be universally praised. There are no news of naked photos yet though...
Being objective, they're just a bunch of annoying little goblins repeating the same song again and again, quite inoffensive tbh.
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